On voicing the thing you're not supposed to say

It feels to me like a lot of your work is about politically charged subjects. Especially the crowd work. I haven’t seen your set, but your comedy talks about racial tensions, disability, etc. Is that just what you’re interested in? Is it something you feel a responsibility to address?

Oh, it is my natural interest. I’m interested in people’s political affiliations. I try to keep an open mind, but fundamentally, I do completely judge people and put them into boxes based on their political beliefs. [*laughs*] Also, their experiences in life. It doesn’t mean that I can’t be friends with someone of a different mindset, but I find it a very helpful way to understand people.

I treat people and I understand people differently based on who they are. I think I treat men differently than I treat women. I treat gay people differently than I treat straight people. Obviously, I treat women and gay people horribly, and then I treat men better because they’re men and they deserve more respect. [*laughs*] No, no. I treat people differently based on their experiences and their beliefs.

When I do crowd work, what I’m trying to do is understand someone as quickly as possible, so that I can understand how to talk to them, what to ask them, and how to make it funny. I do think naturally I go to politics and identity because I find, especially in this day and age, that it’s easier to understand someone when I go there. I feel like I know how to sort of walk the line politically in a way that feels true to me. I can be sort of edgy, but in a way that is not unkind. When I’m doing comedy, I try not to be mean, necessarily, to anyone. That doesn’t feel like an honest way of being to me. My goals have to do a lot more with trying to be the most honest version of myself up there in a way that is funny. Ultimately, I find it fascinating to understand how I’m perceived and how I should perceive other people. My goal of the show is to connect with all people in a way that doesn’t make anyone feel alienated or isolated.

How does the current political climate inform your comedy?

I think people are finally not talking about, like, woke-ism and cancel culture in the way that they were, which was always the most fucking boring thing of all time. I thought it was so lame to hear people talking about how it was impossible to say anything anymore. A lot of people have walked back these statements recently.

Comedy is about dancing around those taboos—whatever you are or are not supposed to be saying, and those things are always changing. To expect them to be static or to expect them not to change is just so unrealistic. Comedy doesn’t age well because the cultural emotional truth is always changing, and comedy is usually a commentary on that.

I will say, it’s sort of nice to be in this really adverse political environment as far as a comedic perspective. It allows, I think, left-leaning comedy to become counter-cultural again. For a while, it was sort of boring to be left-leaning on stage because that was the dominant cultural perspective for a long time. Now the right-leaning perspective has become dominant. Even though the right-leaning perspective is often just like, “We’re silenced by woke people.” It’s like, but you guys have the biggest podcast in the world. You have some of the biggest media properties in the world. So that’s not true. You can say it’s true, but it’s not true.

I think that when things are not going well, that is a good moment for comedians to do what they do: to say the truth while sort of getting away with whatever they’re saying. I look forward to finding a way to do that. I think the only thing that sucks about today’s political, cultural, and social environment is that everyone has something to say about everything. That makes it hard to find something interesting to say. But that’s just part of the challenge. That is part of the job. If you can’t find something unique to say, then you shouldn’t be doing this job.

Do you have a favorite or most meaningful moment from your career so far?

I have lots of moments that mean different things for different reasons. Last year I did my first theater that was more than 1,000 seats. That was a pretty big deal to me. As I’ve signed some deals for the upcoming tour, I’m getting to perform in rooms where my heroes have performed. That’s been pretty cool. I got to star in my first feature film a couple weeks ago. I’ve had moments of gratitude and reflection that have come as I’ve almost achieved things that I didn’t ultimately achieve, or as I’ve gotten close to achieving very big things. Sometimes after I achieved some big things. But I don’t know. It’s more that I have moments of reflection and gratitude on my career, and they don’t always necessarily come at the exact same time as achievements.

What scares you about being a comic, and what excites you?

I’m scared of getting bad and irrelevant. The good thing and the bad thing about this job is that I sort of never feel like I’ve had enough. Things that I was really excited about last year now feel like failures, if I don’t keep growing and succeeding. I guess my fear is that I’m sort of like a flash in the pan. I’m afraid of being stuck in one place, and of not finding new topics to talk about on stage and make funny. That’s a big fear of mine now… Stagnating is scary, the idea of that and missing too many big opportunities. When the career starts happening for you, some doors open. If you can’t walk through them, they eventually close. Once they’re closed, it’s pretty hard to reopen them.

I’m pretty excited to go back out on my tour that’s coming up. That’s what most excites me. It’s just gonna be so many cities and experiences. I’m sort of fearing the work that I’ll have to do because when you go out there, it’s a lot of work. Honestly, if you wanna make the most of it, it can’t just be doing the shows. You have to be getting better at the shows and using those shows productively.

Can you tell us a bit about this chapter of your life and what it means?

Well, I’m starting to get old. I’m older than people think I am; I just turned 30. My girlfriend and I just moved in together and we got a dog, which is exciting. I’m going into… what is it, young or old adulthood? It’s not young adulthood. I’m going into adulthood. Old adulthood? I don’t know. Things are getting real out here.

But with comedy, I’m a fully sort of settled, professional comedian. I earn a good living from touring. It does mean I’m gone a lot. As I build more of a sturdy home life, that is a challenge. But I’ve found my passion and I’ve found my partner romantically. We are building a life together. Everything feels pretty good, you know?