On finding meaning in your process

Can you give a brief synopsis of Climb Every Mountain in your own words?

Climb Every Mountain is just a little poem comic trying to use the metaphor of mountain climbing to explain why I feel artists shouldn’t use AI in their process of creating artwork.

What was your first exposure to AI?

I don’t know if I can remember! In terms of art, I started seeing venues and bands using it in making posters or flyers to promote shows, and being in Chicago—and, full disclosure, having friends who screen-print posters—it left a bad taste in my mouth. And as an author, I was keeping up with news on AI companies training their models on work without permission. And then there were the weird short AI videos full of surreal nonsense that started popping up before being replaced by sophisticated deepfake nonsense.

Risograph is such a unique, vibrant printing method. What made it the right process for this project?

I think risograph is great for having a similar feeling to something that’s been screen-printed by hand, but is more manageable for time and scale. I’d previously worked with my partner on this project, J.T. Yost, to produce some risograph comics, and I like the consistency that still has that variation in detail, and the warm feel of the printing. It felt like the right choice.

How far down the AI research rabbit hole did you dive? What was the most sociopathic thing you heard from the men funding it?

I haven’t dived too deep, because I’d like to maintain sanity and I don’t have a ton of time with the projects I’m working on, but I try to read up when there’s an interesting article or science news, and try to have a general understanding of where things are. As for the people funding…as far as I can guess, it’s all the same as pretty much any business or corporation, all about profit, and any other concerns are irrelevant to them.

You’ve written copious kids books about Darth Vader, highlighting the humanity and whimsy of the character. How much am I stretching by saying there’s a thematic line between Darth Vader and AI? Is Darth Vader the best fictional representation of technology corrupting the capacity and hope of humanity?

The “more machine than man” was definitely a theme of Vader’s character, and his cold calculus of power where life is an expendable resource of no value beyond what it can do to advance the Empire is a pretty fitting parallel, I think. There’s probably other stories that ask the same questions, if not in the 1:1/human:tech sense. Ultimately to me it’s about losing sight of what makes us human, and what it means.

As a cartoonist, the comics culture hasn’t allowed much leverage for AI—the Eisner Awards implemented a new rule excluding works that incorporate AI from future inclusion. On a larger scale, Jorge R. Guiterrez abandoned his AI animation project after getting backlash (and amazing subtweets from Guillermo Del Toro). Can we will generative AI from substantiating? How much validity do you give to the “it’s coming, we can embrace it or become antiquated” argument?

I don’t know if “it’s coming” so much as it’s being forced upon us, in the quest for wealth and power from the people who already have wealth and power. The idea of being antiquated misses the point. The differences between sending a letter and calling someone on the phone and sending an email—those are advances in ways we can stay connected to other people. If your AI agent is just emailing back and forth with my AI agent, that’s not us connecting, and to say we’re antiquated if we aren’t using AI to email isn’t exactly a slam dunk argument if it’s not addressing what the argument is really about. Comics has been, in my experience, a very community based industry, both for creators and readers, so maybe comics culture is onto something there.

What advice would you give to a first time creative contemplating using AI to create comics?

I believe there’s a difference between a tool that allows you to do something new and a tool that replaces an experience. When you make comics, you’re also learning how to make comics. If you’re taking shortcuts, you’re robbing yourself of opportunities to grow as an artist. It may be faster and cheaper to arrive at whatever end product you had in mind, but you’re essentially putting a limit on yourself. I would really ask yourself—you may be saving yourself time or money or energy, but what is it costing you? Because it’s not free.

What questions would you ask yourself about this project that I’m not asking (and then totally answer your hypothetical question)?

Did you think about any other metaphor besides climbing a mountain for your feelings about using AI in art? Is this the first in a series?

I did think another metaphor would be cooking. You can write a recipe for someone to make, you can tell someone what to make, you can tell someone to make something out of whatever ingredients…none of that will make you the chef. And none of that will have the same results of actually learning to cook with a parent or friend, and you won’t understand what it means to share a meal you cooked with people you care about. But I don’t think I’ll draw that, or any other comic explicitly about AI, I think Climb Every Mountain says enough for now.