On using art to give back to your community

Since their formation in 2019, Oklahoma City-based quartet Chat Pile has grown from a scrappy passion project of four local film and music enthusiasts into one of the defining heavy acts to emerge from the 2020s underground.

In a world increasingly shaped by disposable content, Chat Pile answers with something defiantly real and organic. Ray B. (vocals), L. Manhole (guitar), Stin (bass), and Cap’n Ron (drums)’s crushing, crass, and cathartic take on noise rock resonates in this cracked reality—capturing a raw, undeniably human essence that’s increasingly fleeting in an age marked by ceaseless torrents of algorithmic slop, technological overreach, and the cold, crestfallen state of society. Their third album Who Loves the Sun came out earlier this year.

While Chat Pile’s lyrics aren’t about any one subject, the band is forward when it comes to political messaging. Whether it’s about tackling homelessness or other injustices, what’s been Chat Pile’s approach to writing about these matters? For instance, how do you decide whether to pursue subjects in a poetic or an explicit manner?

First of all: action versus inaction, action wins, always. I write all the lyrics. When we decided to do the song “Why?,” [which is explicitly about homelessness], I was like, “I’m going to do a song like this.” I wanted to make that as blunt as possible and not coded in any poetic metaphor. Just make it as easy as possible for everyone to understand what I’m trying to say.

But we’ve been a band for a long time and what’s beautiful about making art is you can do whatever you want at any time. I mean, it’s fun to exercise different muscles.

Being in Chat Pile, have you experienced moments where people have told you, “Oh, this really connects to my situation. I felt seen by this”?

I have a lot of people tell me exactly what you just said to me. I wish more bands were political. I’m very inspired by the bands I grew up with that are very political, like Dead Kennedys. That was before my time, but I saw Jello Biafra [the former lead vocalist of Dead Kennedys] on a spoken word tour when I was 18. Propagandhi and stuff like that, The Clash. I’ve always loved bands that have a political message.

I don’t feel like we’re even the most political—we’re not like Propagandhi, we’re not that extreme. I think it is important for people to be reflecting on the world we live in now, even if it’s just a sociological way. I don’t feel like there’s a lot of substance lyrically happening right now in general, and I wish there was more. I think there’s people that could do a lot better job than I do.

Last month, Chat Pile played a charity show to raise money for Sisu Youth Services in Oklahoma City. [Editor’s Note: This is an organization that offers shelter for unhoused people ages 15 to 22.] Do you view Chat Pile as a vehicle for enacting social change?

That show featured us and some friends: Portrayal of Guilt, Nightosphere, Traindodge, Primal Brain. All proceeds went to Sisu Youth, which is an identity-inclusive youth shelter in town. I mean, it’s the least we can do. I just wanted to say this, too—we’ve done stuff like this before , and any band at any time can do this. Can you imagine if Taylor Swift did something proportional to where she’s at, or somebody that’s on that level would do something? I mean, it’s ridiculous not to give back to your community.

I’m really glad that we’re at the level we’re at now and that we can do something like this. I’m happy to help. I think we could do a lot more. I mean, I’m as lazy as the next person, sucked into looking at my phone too much or whatever. But I try to engage with the world. Anyway, the least we can do is something like this. Any band could do it, especially bands on our level or up there could do stuff like this at any time.

I would love to hear more about your experience with social justice work. Getting more involved as Chat Pile, whether it’s through your art or leveraging the band’s popularity to do good. The Sisu Youth show is one example, and you’ve said that Chat Pile has done other things like that.

We’ve just done shows where we’ve given money, or we’ve given portions of proceeds. We’ve given money to Sisu before. We gave money to this person named Mo Turner [they served as a member of the Oklahoma House of Representatives, from 2021 to 2024] who was running for a government seat, and they won, which was nice. We’ve given to local organizations like that. Before that, my friend Lucas and I ran a weekly movie screening at a bar, and we’d do fundraisers and things for Sisu and other local organizations like that.

How does an artist who has no idea how to do anything like that get involved? What are the steps that you had to take to learn and find the right people to talk to?

That’s literally all there is to it. Stin [Chat Pile’s bassist] is making this more professional than I ever could. There are always people at these organizations that will help. I mean, maybe not always. Sometimes it depends on the organization.

I can’t remember who it was, but somewhere back there [referring to some unnamed organization] somebody was looking into our band and didn’t agree with our values, or so they thought, and we were shocked by it. Because I think we had the “Why?” song, and they liked that, but then they listened to “Wicked Puppet Dance” or something. This is the God’s Country era. I can’t even remember who that was. I don’t want to put anyone on blast.

But all I’m saying is if you want to do it on a small level, I mean, all you have to do is be like, just promise that all the proceeds [will be] donated to something. Then usually it’s good to just take a picture of the thing and be like, “Look, I’m doing this.” Anybody can do that kind of stuff. When me and my friend were doing things for Sisu, we’re just like, “We’re going to do this.” Then count the money, and you just do it. All you have to do is be honest and give the money. Anybody can donate to organizations at any time. With the internet, it’s easy to figure that stuff out.

There’s always been corporate pressure in the music industry, but I feel that, in these times, we’ve reached a brutal point. Corporations only care about numbers going up, and sometimes that means pushing artists into trying to appease algorithms and leaning into AI slop. I imagine for new artists wanting to get out into the world, these corporate efforts create a sense of intimidation. Rather than focusing on making art, the artists may think “I’m not going to get noticed unless I appease an algorithm.” What is advice that you’d like to share with those people in regard to maintaining their artistic integrity?

For one thing, it’s hard for kids or younger people to have perspective on this, but it’s easier now than ever for people to hear your music. I can’t really identify with that because, I mean, growing up in the ‘90s and the early 2000s, we had MP3.com, IUMA, file sharing, Soulseek, and Bandcamp. It feels like it’s pretty old at this point, I guess. But all that’s great. I love it because, for me, it’s like I can show somebody whatever. It’s there.

Okay, but then strip all that shit away and let’s get to the heart of what you were really asking. I think with any art—it’s a fool’s errand to make it for money, success, anything other than that you need to create art. There’s a lot of that shit out there. There is a lot of it out there and some of it’s successful. A lot of what’s successful is bullshit, it’s just meaningless garbage. If you’re actually trying to make art, it has to be pure, you know?

And you can’t do it with AI. The worst band ever is better than anything made by AI, by a bot. We can’t do that. Using AI to do art in any way makes it null and void. I don’t want to think about it, hear it, see it, read it.

Did the topics of algorithms and AI make their way into Chat Pile’s lyrics for the new record, Who Loves the Sun? I would also love to hear what the process of making art means to you.

I’m primarily a musician. I do love film. I’ve done some stuff, but it’s been a very long time since I’ve worked in that medium. I wrote something in the last couple years, but it took a lot out of me. Music is just… I mean, the idea that somebody would try to jump the line by pushing a button [referring to ChatGPT] is just disgusting to me. Music means a lot of different things to me, but at its purest essence, it’s spiritual to me.

I don’t necessarily believe in god, but there is something moving about it that is different than the rest of the experience we have on Earth—for me at least. It’s just like you can change modes or something. There are other things you can do, but that one, to me, is the one.

Music is a lot of fun too. I mean, music can be anything. I love music so much.

In our album, there’s quite a few songs. “Deep Blue” is, in a way, about a relationship deteriorating. But relationships in general: romantic, friends, workplace or otherwise. The human experience, because we’re all just looking at our phones. “Influence” is about scrolling and the threshold rising of what you can see, what you care about and how it’s shrinking. That’s algorithms shrinking our brains. “Christabel [‘26]” is a fun joke I’m playing on lit nerds, calling it “Christabel ‘26.” It’s inspired by the [Samuel Taylor] Coleridge poem. It’s a pretty obvious metaphor for AI, just pushing AI into the home.

Then it pops up in other places, too. It’s on my mind.

I imagine there are people who view art making through a lens of commerce. “Is my art valuable if no one buys it?” Which is a shame because that shouldn’t be the point. I agree with you – for me, art is spiritual and fun. I also understand that for some folks, like yourselves, your art is your job, and that creates a pressure. Would you mind talking about maybe navigating those kinds of feelings when you first started making art and how you got over those hurdles?

I was very unsuccessful at pretty much everything I did. I lived in abject poverty for a couple years. I’m laughing, but it’s not funny. It was horrible. I had my own struggles with drugs and things in my 20s, and my mom, thankfully, was able to help me get treatment. But anyway, my art never made money, but I never felt like it had no value. I mean, sometimes I would feel like it wasn’t good. Maybe like, “Whoops, this was bad.”

But then a lot of times—I’ll tell you this, dear reader—you will be like, “Wow, I did it.” Don’t ever delete what you did…unless you really want to. If you did something and you’re proud of it at some stage in your life and you feel like, “Wow, I really made a piece of art here,” hang on to that thing. It’s not for anyone. It’s for you to understand your life. For me, that’s how it is. Sometimes you realize, “Oh, I fucked up on this thing,” or think “Why did I do this?,” or whatever. It’s important to strive to do good things. When you do good things, put them out, have them be done, and then go on to do the next good thing.

There’s no ethical consumption under capitalism and having to navigate the music industry comes with an array of complex obstacles. With the values that Chat Pile has, how have you and the guys navigated the band to make the most ethical choices?

We try to do our best, like anyone would. We don’t pretend to be Fugazi. I don’t know who’s a prime example of somebody who’s a true anarchist that’s getting it done. Or a leftist or a communist. We sell records. They’re too expensive, I think, but everything’s too expensive. I don’t know if we do a good job compared to other bands on that kind of stuff. You try your best.

If a band is just starting out and they have their values, but they don’t know what direction to go—what are ethical paths that maybe you’ve taken or you’ve heard other bands take?

Well, I do know that there’s no reason for concert prices to be as high as they are, especially for big bands. All you can do is do your best. When you’re at a lower level [referring to artists/bands that may be DIY, independent, relatively smaller] I mean, definitely just buy shirts, spray paint your name onto it or screen print over stuff. There’s a lot of awesome, fun things you can do with reusing and recycling. I have a pretty fun idea for when we we’re going on tour in North America involving books, and I am really excited to do that.

I’m not trying to get too far off topic here, but I want people to read. I want to use my time with Chat Pile to help fucking promote literacy because I’m very scared about people not reading.

But in terms of ticket prices, merch and all that stuff, we live in a capitalist society. It’s like, this is my job. I wish the government would subsidize my art. It would be wonderful if they did, but it’s not the case. When you’re on a smaller level, there’s plenty of awesome things you can do. When you’re at bigger levels, you don’t need to charge as much as you are for the shit you’re selling.